Tokyo
Date: 25/4/20
Oral history/ interview:
- Interviewee is translated.
Shimasaki:
Can you please go over your testimony and touch the main points that you mentioned about your experience and your mother’s experience please?
Sugino:
Well, she justs study the A-bomb in Hiroshima, about 1 years-old, so that she doesn’t know anything about it until when she asked her mother what kind of damage or experience we had together because one-year little girl covered by mother.
[My brother] who was just first grade of middle school, had to join the housing projects, the demolishing project forced by the government to destroy houses to make wider spaces to protect fires and all the students of that grade, first grade is working near the epicentre were dead including their teachers.
Her elder brother and teacher’s corpse cannot find out.
Shimasaki:
So, they never found bodies?
Sugino:
Mmh, yeah.
Her sister was 8 years old and about 8-o-clock she left her house, and actually the A-bomb in Hiroshima hits 8:15. So, the bombing was received by her after departs from house.
Now, her mother and herself tried to escape to the suburbs of Hiroshima, it was just lucky for her, I mean, the both of her that they met across, happened to meet across sister [Sugino’s sister] who is just, you know, in company with her friends family, and after their meeting each other the three of them, I mean the three in their family, try to escape from Hiroshima to the suburbs and she just, she was, her mother just carried her in her arms and also the… There is no hand available for her mother and her sister just took the skirt of mother’s and went to the elementary school located in suburb of Hiroshima.
Her family, the mother and sister, and herself was laid down on the floor of the elementary school and both her mother and sister were so exhausted and just sit down silently but she [Sugino] is very active for running around, of course, one years old- very small but anyway, she was told by her mother that she was so active to look around, the sufferers of the bombs just laying down on the floors an her mother was just watching the situation they are getting ready to or not ready, anyway, victims laying around trying to survive but in bad situation.
Well next day, three of them went to the other relatives located in the countryside, and by hearing that the trains started so three of them went to her grandmother’s house to evacuate and her sister was severely burned and suffered from burns and passed away August 26th. And, she thought that her sister was lucky because she was passed away by her mother’s side and also on the bed while the other children lost their lives all of a sudden.
Now on the windy days or the hard rain days her mother was uh, at night, her mother suddenly wake up that Sugino’s brother just came back to their house, her mother thought about it, however, most of the mother of those injured sons feel that way, and that way means, all of a sudden those sons or daughters came back to the parents.
Shimasaki:
Because they never got a body?
Sugino:
That’s a common sense or feeling that her mother said to her.
Several tens year later, when she was a high school student on August 6th, on the TV, the peace ceremonies has carried out in Hiroshima and uh the TV broadcast will be on this day and her mother looks like the shoulder for her mother is trembling looking from the back, she thought that the mother is weeping, crying for the lost and regardless of the many years have lapsed all of the feeling of the loss did continue over her.
Shimasaki:
It had an emotional toll for a long time?
Sugino:
The radiation has no colour, no smell, and cannot see it so that we just over missed the effect the radiation but on certain days, while she bled from the nose she thought that its probably due to the effect of radiation and also she had experience of friends of next, middle school classes had got leukaemia suddenly and passed away and most of Hibakusha feels that they may have some effect of the radiation or cancers. And at the age of 40s, she was declared by doctors that you have breast cancer and it was shock that while finally cancer has been, that she felt the way of this.
Shimasaki:
So, it’s, is it something that they sort of expect, or are fearful of?
[Sugino nods]
Sugino:
However, the, the detection of breast cancer was early then the result of the remedy was successful so that right now she is very, very, [11:26 difficult to hear word] and she tried to be active as a Hibakusha testimony and activity for the nuclear abolishment.
When she had the A-bomb experience, she was just 1-years old, so that she doesn’t know, she didn’t know almost everything what happened on her. One clear memory is that up until 4th or 5th grade of elementary school when the trucks are loading with deconstruction of the city is passing by, was passing by her house with the noise and also thunderstorm, the big noise, and also the earthquake, something like that, her first instinct reactions towards trembles or sounds makes her very uneasy and she just grasp her mother whenever it happened. So, that is a clear memory for her, only one exception.
Her mother said that she had a good memory, clearly, that now cautious up close to her and grasp.
Shimasaki:
That sort of relates then to mental impacts that she has faced. Other than in her childhood with things like the grasping to her mother when she would hear loud noises, has she suffered any other mental health issues?
Sugino:
When she was about three years old at, her memory of that era is Hiroshima as quite flat area, without any buildings, that her clear memory and also that in conjunction with the A-bombing, the city have civil work project to make wider street, the width of the street is 100 metres, when you go to Hiroshima they call it, they name it, Peace Street, it has wide and for little child it is not easy to cross that street in one so, that area is always a frightening experience to cross and has memory of a flat, very flat area.
She added that when she was 3 years old, no trees, just a bare wide street, and she just told you that she hoped to see such street, like now, that wood or trees have lined up, so that there is no, quite different from then.
Shimasaki:
It has changed since then. After the bombing, she said that she left the city, did she return then and is that how she saw it as a three-year old, or did they permanently move someplace else?
Sugino:
So that the clear memory of area is that the trains starts as well as the spontaneous reaction on the day the trains started going out of Hiroshima to help the rescue or escape the evacuees so that regular three or four times a line of train leaving from Hiroshima so she was certain that she took the train for that purpose, and the difference from Miyake-san’s case she stays in Hiroshima for, up until she get married.
Shimasaki
Ok. So she went back as soon at it was considered safe?
Sugino:
She wrote she was 1.3 kilometres from epicentre she was living at the time of the bombing and she returned home the evacuated place of grandmothers to the original address, and built her very simple house using the waste debris of the house itself… simple housing. Yes. And her father came back from the war to join this fight with the mother and herself.
Shimasaki:
Had they heard about environmental concerns by that time and the potential that living in the area could have on them and using the same materials that had been exposed to radiation?
Sugino:
You know the Sadako? Sadako? … Sadako is a very famous children’s story. She was two years old or something. She received the A-bomb and… And what she said previously, next class of the middle school, is that… [pause]
Shimasaki:
Sadako was there?
Sugino:
And, it’s a, she said it’s a middle school students, that means about 10, 12 years old or so, so that Miyake-san said that 1954, that atom bomb in Bikini atoll has substantial trigger point of spreading the news of radiation effect so that her soul, bodies, the radiation, is just known to the fact of Sadako that up until that time.
Shimasaki:
They didn’t know what was going to happen. Has she heard about the potential intergenerational concerns and does she know of any cases? Was that something she was potentially concerned about when she was having children?
Shimasaki:
[Interviewee directly to me- Of course].
Sugino:
When she was going to get married with her partner, he reported to his family to get married and his mother said, he is not Hiroshima, living in Hiroshima he is just transferred to there from out of area to Hiroshima so that his mother asked him, ‘is she from Hiroshima?’ and that spontaneously hit her memory that tendency of the rumours of Hiroshima was spreading around.
Her close friend, most close friend who had experienced that very big objection to her marriage by the partner. She was often heard her story about it, but it is not, he thought that it is not her. It is not her exp… it is beyond other’s experience and it is not attached to me.
Shimasaki:
Not attached to her?
Sugino:
Uh, yeah but what he heard from his, from her partner that his mother just listens, just ask this kind of a question, ‘is she from Hiroshima?’ means that probably the common sense, understanding of Hiroshima.
Shimasaki:
Ok, and lots of the social questioning, was that because of the potential implications for children, that they might have?
Sugino:
So, yes, yes.
He thought that he got such kind of, I mean, such conversation was going home, then the, she noticed that her first daughter was born with very good situation, then he thought that ‘I did it’.
Shimasaki:
Oh, he said… yeah. [chuckles].
Sugino:
So, it’s very too good to his mother and two brothers.
Shimasaki:
Yes, very happy that the child was ok and that he contributed to that. Because of her cancer was she ever given compensation, and did they ever connect that back to radiation?
Sugino:
You mean that, compensation means, you know abut the Japanese governmental allowance given to the Hibakusha. No?
Shimasaki:
No.
Translator:
The Japanese government. This is not related to her questions but uh, the Japanese government, thanks to the efforts of the very active appeal, there for until thirty years or so, after that we had, we mean the Hibakushas, Hibakushas, the government recognised the Hibakushas by four categories, and issued or just give us certificate as you noticed in last, yesterday that you paid about 800 yen for entering fee of the museum- I just show that, some note. That mean, that is, governmental recognitions part for Hibakusha and Hibakusha is kept. Then that is certificate of the Hibakusha and Hibakusha, one category is direct bombing, second is entering the city within two weeks from starting the bombing date, the area of course is defined- two kilometres or so and thirdly the rescues or I would say unborn baby.
Shimasaki:
Unborn babies in the mother’s womb when the bomb was dropped?
Translator:
That’s, forth is the, the people who may have rescued or taking care of the Hibakushas- Means if I were Hibakusha and you take care of me, you are supposed to get radiation from me. That’s true.
No two weeks, but probably much longer. I forgot exactly. But, such four categories was the reason of the recognitions and of course she and I or Miyake-san is all direct bombing and for that in the past they/ government do not pay anything on the even the medical expenses.
Shimasaki:
So Sugino got no support for her cancer treatment?
Translator:
But 1965 or so the medical expenses for the patient suffering from the actual diseases they have reimbursement on their medical expenses by the government but and uh still that is not fair, the attitude of the Hibakusha and the people appeals to pay some compensation and right now, if they have a certificate and have some kind of a disease categories, then the government pay us about 30,000 yen, about 33,000 yen or so. I forgot the detailed digit… And especially for the special recognised A-bomb diseases. That means have keloids or still struggling with cancer right now or heart attack right now. But, this is quite different to US or other countries. In Japan, the total amount of the recipients of the, we call, has controlled fees. It’s 33,000 that is abut right now … If her daughter suffered from cancer, the medical expenses is paid by the government depending on the locality. I mean, in Tokyo the second generation get the medical expense reimbursement…
Shimasaki:
What are your hopes for the future?
Sugino:
[Speaks directly to me in English] Against nuclear weapon in the world.
She is suggesting for her, just abolish nuclear weapons.
She thought that the medical expenses bared, borne by the government it’s happy for her. It should be but it was not down for a long time, but she is right now is happy to just receiving the medical free.
Shimasaki:
Ok. And, what got her involved with the Hibakusha movement?
Sugino:
[In English] once a month I managed, I do, active, signature. [Translated again]. Right now is to ask people on the street to make signature, the international signature for Hibakusha’s appeal.
Shimasaki:
You are getting people to sign for the appeal?
Sugino:
Sign. Also, she is active in the local activity what, which Miyake-san said ‘To-yu-kai’ Tokyo Hibakusha group.
Shimasaki:
Is that to raise awareness of nuclear weapons or just of the part…?
Sugino:
And also the two, as Miyake-san said, two main objectives. One is Hibakusha activity is to appeal for government to rescue to have some assistance to the victims, that is partially medical expenses is achieved and other compensations so to speak is supplied now. But still actually very severely suffered from A-bomb diseases- So leukaemia or cancer, they, the Hibakusha groups appeals for more compensation. That’s what.
And more important than money is the law is a nuclear free world.
Shimasaki:
Nuclear free world. Ok. Did you want to make any remarks or ask any questions?
Sugino:
What is the motivation for you to start this master’s degree thesis? This is straightforward question because nuclear weapons are quite different from young generations.
Shimasaki:
Yes. I hadn’t heard about it until I had started university and [name omitted] came and did one lecture for us in my Environment, Development, Disaster course and I was really interested. I continued to visit her and started reading documents, then I began focusing on different testing examples, and finally because of my heritage and the large impact on the population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (1945), I wanted to look at that in more depth, and consider how nuclear weapons had been used in warfare as opposed to how they were used in testing.